Puzzled by Albert McShane!

As I mentioned a few days ago…it was Albert McShane, an older brother from Ireland, who made a statement which first got me thinking “outside of the box” of the traditional interpretation of John 14. In a 1989 Toronto conference Bible reading on John 14, he made a statement that surprised me….Regarding the Lord Jesus, statement, “I go to prepare a place for you”, Mr. McShane commented, “He’s going away by dying for us.”

That one statement stuck in my mind because it was so radically opposed to everything I’d ever heard or believed about John 14 previously!!

However, as I began to study the chapter a few years later and checked out Mr. McShane’s suggestion with the text, it seemed to be entirely in keeping with John 14,15 and 16! I concluded that if His “going away” actually was His going to die on the cross, consistency with the text would demand that His “coming again” would be His coming out of death by resurrection. As I’ve recently shown, this is entirely consistent with the Lord Jesus’ teaching in John14,15 and 16.

So when I found a later article written by Mr. McShane, you can imagine my surprise to learn that, in spite of believing that the Lord’s “going away” was His going to die on the cross, he still believed that His “coming again” was His coming from heaven at the rapture!

In the August 1996 issue of “Truth and Tidings” (a Bible teaching magazine), brother Mc Shane wrote an article, “A Comparison of John and Paul”, in which he wrote the following:
“John… records the Lord's wonderful promise to His own, "I will come again and receive you unto myself' (John 14:3). In this promise we have the "rapture" referred to, for it is not Christ coming down to earth to set up His kingdom, but rather His coming to take His own to the many mansions.”

From a man who stated his belief that the Lord Jesus’ going away (John 14:2 and 3a) was by His death, I cannot for the life of me understand how he could still retain the idea that the rapture (the Lord Jesus’ coming from heaven) was the subject of John 14:3b!

Since brother McShane was promoted to glory in 2002, I cannot contact him to ask him, personally, about his understanding of John 14. So I have been doing some research to try to locate any written or spoken ministry of his relative to John 14. Just this morning I have ordered from the UK two recordings of Bible readings on John 14 which Mr. McShane conducted. So I hope to learn more from those.

If anyone reading this post knows of any writings of his on John 14 or of any other audio recordings of ministry of his on the same chapter, I would very much appreciate hearing from you! You can simply leave a comment below or email me at bwood4d@gmail.com.

Where Did the Lord Jesus say He was as He spoke John 14?

The answers which I discovered in the very text of scripture relative to the questions in previous posts made me realize that Albert McShane had realized a truth of scripture that many others had missed entirely, i.e. that the Lord Jesus was speaking about "going away" by dying for us within a few hours, NOT about ascending to heaven some 40 days later! But before I could entirely reject the common teaching which I had believed and taught for years, I had to be absolutely convinced in my own mind by seeking answers to a number of other crucial questions.....

4.Probably the most important question of all was this: "Where did the Lord Jesus say that He was at the moment when He was speaking the words of John 14:1-4,6,7,9 and 10?" The reason why this is a most important question is this: The Lord Jesus said...."I will come again and receive you unto myself that WHERE I AM (present tense as he was speaking) there ye may be also." He did not say, "...that where I will go (future tense) there ye may be also."

In John 14:10,11 the Lord Jesus told His disciples precisely where He was at the moment He was speaking to them. "Believest thou not that I AM IN THE FATHER and the Father in me? The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me (the Lord Jesus was the Father's house!), He doeth the works. Believe me that I AM IN THE FATHER, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake."

5. When the Lord Jesus said that He was "the way, the truth and the life", did He claim to be "the way to heaven" or "the way to the Father"?

"...no man cometh unto the Father but by me." John 14:6
I don't know why, but I had always understood, in spite of what the verse said, that it really "meant" that Jesus was the way to heaven!!!

6. Does scripture teach that, after Jesus came back OUT OF DEATH in resurrection, believers in Him are actually IN THE FATHER?

Yes, it does! John 14:20 says, "In that day ye shall know that I am in my Father and ye in me and I in you." Also 1 John 2:24 says, "Let that therefore abide in you, which ye have heard from the beginning. If that which ye have heard from the beginning shall remain in you, ye also shall continue in the Son, and in the Father."

7.Does scripture teach that, when the Lord Jesus returns FROM HEAVEN, believers go TO HEAVEN?

No, It doesn't! As I searched out the answer to this question, I was absolutely astounded to learn that when the Lord Jesus descends from heaven there is not a single line of scripture that teaches that He takes a "U turn" in the clouds and returns to heaven!! Rather scripture clearly teaches that His return will be in like manner as the disciples saw Him go!

-When He went, He ascended from earth to heaven, so when He returns, He descends from heaven to earth! (Acts 1 with Zech.14)

-He ascended from the Mount of Olives (Acts 1:12) and will descend to the very same spot!! (Zech.14:4,5)

-He was last seen in the clouds (Acts 1:9) and, as He returns, He will be first seen in the clouds (Matt.24:30; 26:64; Mark 13:26; 14:62; I Thess.4:17 and Rev.1:2)

It is we who make the "U turn"! We ascend to meet the Lord in the air (I Thess.4:17) and then will be manifested with Him (II Thess.1:10) as He continues His descent to the Mount of Olives the very same day. (Zech 14:4,5)

When I first heard Mr McShane speak in Toronto in 1989, I had no idea that the idea he suggested from John 14 would have such radical effects upon my thinking and convictions relative to end-times prophecy!! But the questions that were thus raised and were being answered by the very words of scripture were challenging everything I'd ever been taught about the coming of the Lord! The next question for which I had to find a scriptural answer was this....


8. Does scripture promise believers rest from trouble seven years prior to the Lord Jesus’ REVELATION? I had always been taught, believed and had taught to others the idea of a "pre-tribulation rapture" of the saints 7 years prior to the Lord Jesus' revelation in power and glory. This question compelled me to search the scriptures to see whether or not these things were so. (Acts 17:11). I was astounded again to discover that scripture never once teaches such an idea but actually answers the above question with a resounding "NO!"

The very words of scripture declare (1) what God is going to recompense to those who trouble the saints, (2) what God is going to recompense to us who are troubled and (3) when those promises will be fulfilled. In II Thessalonians 1 the apostle Paul declared these truths in no uncertain terms "Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; and to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with His mighty angels, in flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God and obey not the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ." (II Thess.1:6-8)

All my former teaching on this subject of the coming of the Lord was shaken at it's foundations when I saw that the very words of scripture showed me that the catching up of the saints, the gathering of the elect from earth and heaven and our redemption, the redemption of our bodies, occurs AFTER the tribulation! See Matthew 24:29-31, Mark 13:24-27, Luke 21:25-28, and Romans 8:23 ( The “redemption” of our bodies Rom.8:32 and the "redemption" of Luke 21:28 is the very same word and the very same event!)
Thus, I believe scripture clearly teaches a post-tribulation rapture.
But another very commonly accepted teaching was also to be challenged in my mind by the very words of the text of scripture!....

9. I asked, "Does scripture ever teach that believers "go to heaven when they die or when the Lord comes?" (I could not have been more surprised when I saw that such a belief had no grounds whatsoever in the scriptures!)

No, it doesn't! The truth of scripture is that people go to heaven when they live NOT when they die! All in scripture who ever went to heaven, went there while their physical bodies were alive!
-Enoch Gen.5:24 and Heb.11:5
-Elijah II Kings 2:11,
-the Lord Jesus Acts 1:9-11,
-the apostle Paul II Cor.12:2;
-the apostle John Rev.4:1,2;
-and every believer Ephesians 2:6) One of the many blessings with which we have already been blessed in heavenly places in Christ (Eph.1:3) is that we have already been ‘seated in heavenly places (literally "above the heavens"!) in Christ". Ephesians 2:6 This not simply "positional truth" as many claim! It is an actual fact! This is as much an actual and very practical fact as the following:
-the fact that we died with Christ Romans 6:2
-the fact that we rose with Christ Col.3:1 and Eph.2:5
-the fact that we are all baptized in one Spirit into one Body I Cor.12:13
-the fact that we are forgiven Romans 4:7; Ephesians 4:32; I John 2:12
-the fact that we are justified Romans 5:1
-the fact that we are in Christ and Christ is in us John 14:20
-the fact that we have been delivered from the power of darkness and translated into the kingdom of God's son Colossians 1:13
-the fact that we are accepted in the Beloved Ephesian 1:6
-the fact that we have been indwelt by the Spirit of God John 14:17
-the fact that we have been sealed by the Spirit untio the day of redemption Eph.1:13,14
-the fact that we have been made nigh to God Eph.2:13
-the fact that we have been reconciled to God Eph.2:16
-the fact that we have access by one Spirit unto the Father Eph.2:18
-the fact that we are built together as a habitation of God Eph.2:22 etc, etc, etc!!!

Thus, when the Lord Jesus said, "I go to prepare a place for you and if I go and prepare a place for you I will come again and receive you unto myself that where I am there ye may be also" ....He was NOT speaking of going away to prepare dwelling places for believers IN HEAVEN! He was speaking of going away to Calvary and into death so that when He came again out of death in resurrection power, we might be IN THE FATHER where He was! John 14 is all about relationship in the Father, NOT about "rapture into heaven"!

The latter view cannot be substantiated by any other actual statements of scripture! Although it is a very commonly accepted teaching and not even questioned by most, I have come to the conclusion that it is nevertheless an unscriptural teaching!



(I fully realize that such things are a radical departure from what many of you have been taught all your lives. I do not expect you to change your mind after reading a few of my posts on the subject! Search the scriptures for yourself and ask as many questions as you like and purpose to find answers to those questions in the very words of scripture. Feel free to ask such questions in the comments below and let us search the scriptures together for the anwers.)

IN HEAVEN OR IN THE FATHER??

As I began to study John 14 in earnest, the question that I wanted to answer from the very text of scripture was this: “Did the Lord Jesus, in John 14, speak about going to heaven and thus preparing a place for us IN HEAVEN, or did He speak of going to the cross to prepare a place for us IN THE FATHER?”

So here are the questions I asked along with the results of my findings:

1.Which is in the context of the chapter? Heaven or the Father? "Heaven" is mentioned 19 times in John's Gospel but the nearest places to John 14 are 12:28 and 17:1. So it is difficult to maintain that "heaven" is the subject under discussion in John 14! But "the Father" is a major theme in John's Gospel. He is referred to 119 times in all but is found 21 times in John 14 alone! So “the Father” definitely is in the context of this chapter!

2.Where, what, or who is "the Father's house" in which there are many "mansions", "abodes" or "dwellings"? Is this a place in the universe i.e. “heaven” or is it a person? The Greek word translated "mansions" is MONE (Strong's #3438). It is only used one other place in scripture and that is John 14:23 “Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him.” (Notice here that the abode of both the Father and the Son is with people who love God and obey His Word.)

MONE is derived from the Greek word MENE (Strong's #3306). This word is used by the Lord Jesus in John 14 and 15 of the "abode" or "dwelling" of divine persons and of believers. In all of these cases the "abode" or "dwelling" is a person or a person’s love! As the Lord Jesus uses the word in these two chapters, He never once uses it with reference to a place!
John 14:10 Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth <3306> in me, he doeth the works.
John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide <3306> with you for ever;
John 14:17 Even the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth <3306> with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:25 These things have I spoken unto you, being yet present <3306> with you.
John 15:4 Abide <3306> in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, except it abide <3306> in the vine; no more can ye, except ye abide <3306> in me.
John 15:5 I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth <3306> in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.
John 15:6 If a man abide <3306> not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned.
John 15:7 If ye abide <3306> in me, and my words abide <3306> in you, ye shall askwhat ye will, and it shall be done unto you.
John 15:9 As the Father hath loved me, so have I loved you: continue ye <3306> in my love.
John 15:10 If ye keep my commandments, ye shall abide <3306> in my love; even as I have kept my Father’s commandments, and abide <3306> in his love.
John 15:11 These things have I spoken unto you, that my joy might remain <3306> in you, and that your joy might be full.

Since the Father dwelt in the Lord Jesus (John 14:10), the Lord Jesus, Himself, was the Father's house! “In my Father’s house are many mansions…I go to prepare a place for you.” There are many mansions/abodes/dwelling places in that house and thus believers abide in Christ. (John 15) Our being “in Christ” is a very oft repeated theme throughout the epistles!

Believers are also the habitation or house of God! Ephesians 2:22; I Tim.3:15
This very radical teaching of the interhabitation of divine persons and the saints was introduced for the very first time by the Lord Jesus, Himself, in John 6:56. It was never mentioned anywhere else or at any time prior to John 6. But the Lord Jesus develops that truth in John 13-17 and then the apostles expanded the revelation of that awesome truth throughout the epistles.

So all the scriptural evidence relative to “mansions", "abodes" or "dwellings” in the context of this portion of John’s Gospel reveals that the Lord Jesus was speaking not about a place but rather of persons!


3.Where was the Lord Jesus "going"? From where would He be "coming again" to receive His disciples unto Himself so that they could be where He was? Was He going to heaven for a long time, or was He going into death for a little time?

In order to answer these questions we need to find out what scriptural facts would be true at his "going" and what scriptural facts would be true at His "coming again".
Notice the following things that the Lord Jesus said would be true when He went away:
-"yet a little while and the world seeth me no more" John 14:18
-"a little while and ye shall not see me" John 16:17
-"ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful" John 16:20
These things were true when the Lord Jesus went to Calvary and died, not when He ascended up into heaven! The world (unbelievers) never saw the Lord Jesus alive again after He died. And His disciples were sorrowful after He died (Luke 24:17). But when the Lord Jesus ascended into heaven the disciples were not sad but rather were filled with great joy! (Luke 24:50-52)

Now notice the things that He said would be true at His "coming again":
-"I will come again and receive you unto myself that where I am (I am in the Father) there ye may be also...no man cometh unto the Father but by me." John 14:3,10,6
-"but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also." John 14:19
-"At that day ye shall know that I am in the Father, and ye in me, and I in you. " John 14:20
-"and, again a little while and ye shall see me because I go to the Father." John 16:16
-" Ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: but your sorrow shall be turned into joy" John 16:20
-"I will see you again, and your joy no man taketh from you." John 16:22
-"And in that day ye shall ask me nothing...Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, He will give it unto you." John 16:23
All of these things were true after the Lord Jesus returned in resurrection. We do not need to wait for His return from heaven for these things to be true! We are in the Father, we live, we know that the Lord Jesus is in the Father, and we in Him and He in us, we may have fullness of joy, and we can ask the Father anything in His name and He will give it to us.

Here again, there is not one detail that the Lord Jesus said would be true at His “going” which fits with His ascension into heaven! (See Luke 24 and Acts 1) They were all true when He died on the cross!
Nor is there any evidence in scripture that even one of the things that the Lord Jesus said would be true at His “coming again” that must wait until He returns from heaven! They all happened after His resurrection!

By the time I had realized these simple truths from the text in the very words of the Lord Jesus, Himself, I knew that brother Albert McShane was onto something that many other teachers and commentators had missed!

But I still had many more questions which needed answers. So will continue in another post…

John 14: Ascension, return & rapture OR cross, resurrection & relationship with Father?

A few weeks ago, I listened to the CD of that entire John 14 Bible reading which was recorded at an Easter Toronto Conference in 1989. Harold Paisley, the brother who had opened the Bible reading, stated quite emphatically, “The first three verses tell us of the rapture.”, “This is the foundation teaching on the rapture.” And “I go, speaks of His ascension.” Five other preachers seemed to agree with brother Paisley.

However, when Albert McShane had a chance to make a few comments, I was astounded for I’d never heard such ideas before! Brother McShane said, “He’s going away by dying for us!” And later on he commented, “The Lord is showing them that He is going to the Father and to bring them to Himself.”

I did not immediately study this question for myself but these thoughts were stored for future reference. But when I began to study John 14 for myself a few years later they came to the fore and I had to investigate the question: “Did the Lord Jesus, in John 14, speak about going to heaven to prepare a place for us in heaven OR did He speak of going to the cross to prepare a place for us in the Father?

I knew that answering this question would have far reaching effects on what I believed about many things!
For example:
(1)Was the Lord Jesus in John 14 talking about a far off “coming again” , i.e. the rapture (our being caught up to meet the Lord in the air), which is yet future for us today OR was He talking about a very near “coming again” which would transpire within a few days, i.e. His resurrection, which is now an historical fact for us as New Covenant believers?

(2) Did the Lord Jesus yet have unfinished business to attend to after His ascension, namely the preparation of a place for us in heaven , OR did He really mean what He said on the cross, namely, “It is finished!”

(3) Is it true that “believers go to heaven when they die” OR has everyone without exception who has ever gone to heaven gone there while they were alive in their physical body???

(4) Did the Lord Jesus or do any of the scriptures teach that, when He returns from heaven, He will make a “U turn” and take us back to heaven with Him, OR do the scriptures teach that when He returns from heaven we are caught up to meet Him in the air and that we take a “U turn” and return with Him to the earth?

The answers to all of these and many other crucial questions are inescapably based on this crucial teaching of the Lord Jesus, Himself, in John 14! Therefore it is vitally important that we understand what the Lord was teaching His disciples and us in this pivotal chapter!

When Albert McShane spoke his own simple observations at that 1989 Easter Conference in Toronto, I’m sure he had no idea what radical changes his words would effect in the mind and heart of a young man who was listening in that huge auditorium! (To be continued….)

Transformed Thinking re. the Lord's Going and Coming Again in John 14

At a conference convened on the Easter weekend of 1989 by Gospel Hall Assemblies in Toronto, I attended a Bible reading on John chapter 14. Seven different preachers from Canada, the United States and the UK participated. But, of that hour-long Bible reading, one sentence spoken by one brother is all that I specifically remember! I did remember that most of the men in that Bible reading believed that when the Lord Jesus said, “I go to prepare a place for you…” , He was referring to His ascension to heaven. And concerning the Lord’s next statement, “And if I go to prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you unto myself that where I am, there ye may be also,” they believed that the Lord Jesus was speaking of His return from heaven to receive believers at the rapture to be with him in heaven.

So in the midst of a discussion where 6 men believed that the Lord Jesus’ “going away” was by way of His ascension, the statement that stuck so clearly in my mind years later, was this,

“He was going to go away by dying for us.” I think this idea lodged itself indelibly in my memory simply because it was so radically different to every thought I’d had about John 14 before!

It is only recently that I’ve been able to contact the brother who for years has recorded the messages at the Toronto Conferences. He kindly agreed to search his archives of conference messages, record that Bible reading on a CD and mail it to me. So I want to express my deep appreciation to Jeff Macko of Toronto. Through his diligence I have been able to identify the man who planted a very important “seed thought” into my mind back in April of ’89!

That man was Albert McShane, an older brother from Northern Ireland. In the August 2002 issue of the magazine, “Truth and Tidings” I discovered that Mr. McShane was promoted to glory on May 20th, 2002, 13 years after I heard him in Toronto.

Albert McShane

It was not until the late 1990’s that I began a personal study of John 14. It was only then that the thought, planted by Mr. Mc Shane, came back to mind. So I began to investigate to see whether there was any merit to his suggestion. If one understood that the Lord Jesus’ “going away” was actually His going into death on the cross, consistency with that idea would demand that His “coming again” would be his coming out of death in his resurrection! If that was the case, another question also had to be answered…namely, “Where was He (as He spoke these words to His disciples)?” and thus, “Where would we be when received unto Himself?” As I searched the text for clues in the Lord Jesus’ own words, I found two facts that amazed me because they were so simple and yet I had never noticed them before!

The first clue was the Lord Jesus’ statement in John 14:11 where He told his disciples where He was (present tense) as He was talking with them. He said, “Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me:” I then realized that I had always misunderstood what He had said in Verse 3! Although the verse says, “I will come again and receive you unto myself; that where I am, there ye may be also,”…..I had always thought it meant, “I will come again from heaven (an idea which is utterly foreign to the context!) and receive you unto myself; that where I am going, (i.e. to heaven) there ye may be also”!!!

The second clue came when I read verse 6 and realized that I had understood that it meant something very different from what it actually said! This is what I’d always understood from verse 6…”Jesus said, I am the way, the truth and the life: no man goes to heaven but by me.” But for the first time in my life, I realized that the Lord Jesus meant exactly what He had said, i.e. “…No man cometh unto the Father but by me”!!

It was only then that I began to realize the extent of the false ideas I’d unwittingly adopted from totally false assumptions about this chapter!

I’d been taught all my life that the Lord was talking here about “going to heaven” and “coming back from heaven” so that we might be where He was “in heaven”! But now I realized that not only was “heaven” never mentioned in John 14, it was not even a major theme in the entire Gospel of John! (It is mentioned twice in ch.1, 3 times in ch.3, 9 times in ch.6, once in ch.12 and once in ch.17.) But in contrast, “the Father” is mentioned 119 times in John’s Gospel and 21 times in ch.14 alone!

I began to wonder, how could so many people have been so wrong about the understanding of this favourite passage of scripture??? How did we assume the Lord Jesus was talking about being in heaven when in actual fact he was talking about being in the Father???

Before I could think of teaching such a radically “new” idea, I had lots more questions that had to be answered from the very words of the text. (I’m sorry, but those will have to wait for my next post!)